I have reviewed some other products from Huztl in my blog:
- Farmertec MS360 / 036 chainsaw kit
- Huztl chainsaw chains
- Holzfforma Alaskan chainsaw mill (with Huztl/Farmertec MS660 chainsaw)
August 2019 update
Recently Huztl advertised a new-looking chainsaw bar, still branded Holzfforma, but with different logos and printing on the bar, and stating "German Quality". Given that I've published a critical review of Holzfforma bars here, I thought I should buy a bar and see if Holzfforma has addressed some of their quality problems.
Here's my new Holzfforma "German Quality" 20" bar, Stihl pattern. You don't have to say anything about the messy state of my workbench. |
In summary: this bar has the same over-gauged bar groove, needing hammering when new. The rails were better than the previous Holzfforma bars I've bought, but still required dressing before use. As for steel quality - the biggest problem with these bars - we'll have to give it a few hours work to find out.
Two of my cut-down Holzfforma bars, attached to Stihl 024s, off to the forest to work thinning cypress |
For me, these cheap bars have allowed me to try things out without concern about wasting money. On these bars I’ve been trying out ideas: cutting bars shorter, using used frying oil as bar oil. If my experiments wreck a bar, I haven’t lost much, if they work, I’ve saved a lot of resources.
Trying out cheap bars might be interpreted as stingy. Maybe, but working out what is "good enough" is, I believe, a key to dealing with our overwhelming culture of consumerism. It's very powerful to work out what is good enough to do what you need to do, spend only as much money as you need, and live less as a slave to debt and status anxiety.
After doing a lot of chainsawing with several these bars, I've concluded they are not "good enough". They have 3 main problems:
- Rails out of square: the bar rails appear not to have been ground after laminating, leaving the rails out of square. This will cause the saw to cut a curve. It is relatively easy to remedy this with a file or linisher. All the Holzfforma bars I've bought have had this problem.
- Over-sized gauge: Every Holzfforma bar I've bought has had a bar groove way wider than its specifications, requiring repeated hammering to get the groove to the right gauge.
- Bad steel: with a few hours use, these bars develop chips in the bar rails, apparently due to discontinuities in the steel. These chips are bad enough to make the bars unusable. This has occurred in several different bars: 25" x 3/8" x .063" (2 bars chipped), 18" x 3/8" x .063", 16" x .325" x .063".
Laminated bars
Typical laminated, roller nose bar, without a riveted-on roller nose |
Laminated bars are lighter and cheaper than solid bars, and good quality laminated bars are totally adequate for normal use.
All the shorter Holzfforma bars I’ve bought are normal laminated bars, with spot welding and an integrated roller nose.
The 3/8” pitch, 25” cutting length Holzfforma bar I bought for my Huztl MS660 kit chainsaw looked like a solid bar on the website, with a riveted roller nose. However on arrival I found the bar body is clearly laminated, as there are rows of spot welding marks on the bar.
Here's the 25" bar on my Huztl 066. Looks like a solid bar with riveted roller nose - but it's not solid |
Here's the riveted roller nose |
If you look closely, you may be able to see the rows of spot welds (small circular dimples) parallel to the bar edge, showing that this bar is laminated, not solid |
Bar rails
See the light shining under the rail on the left side, but not on the right? The rails are way out of square and not fit to carry a chain until it's been ground or filed square |
Steel quality
Holzfforma bars are made of carbon steel - you can tell by the way the spot welds are hard. This means the steel is harder than mild steel, but they don't appear to have been heat treated on the rails in the way genuine Stihl bars have to make them harder.The blue colours on the bottom edge of this genuine Stihl bar show it has been heat treated to make it harder |
One chip on the outside of a Holzfforma .325" bar |
Same .325" bar, another chip on outside |
3/8" Holzfforma bar with a chip on the inside of the rails |
Another picture of Pete's bar from the MS660. Beyond repair. |
Another picture of the chipping on my Holzfforma 25" bar. |
And again - the nose is more chipped on the cutting side, seemingly getting damage where the chain comes off the sprocket. |
It doesn't look like these chips have been caused by my hammering, I've never had chipping with other bars after hammering, and my friend Pete's Holzfforma bar (pictured above) chipped very badly without any hammering. I expect it is due to steel quality - my old boilermaker father in law talks about working at times with poor steels that have invisible cracks from manufacture.
As with all bars, keeping the chain sharp and the rails square will reduce bar wear dramatically, along with spreading the cutting up and down the bar (not just cutting at the base of the bar). On most cuts, the chain should be pulling itself into the wood, and not need to be pushed in with the bar rails.
Bar groove gauge
Holzfforma bars are painted with a surprisingly tenacious paint, including the inside of the bar groove. Once the paint inside the groove is worn away by a little chainsawing, I find all Holzfforma bars are made with way over-gauge bar grooves: the chain can tilt way too far left and right because the groove is too wide. If the chain is perfectly sharpened, and the rails are nice and square, the saw will usually cut fine like this at first, but it will be trouble when everything isn’t perfect.I hammer all my Holzfforma bars after a little sawing work has worn away some paint. After a few hours further use I find I need to hammer them again several times, as a little more wearing away of paint and steel quickly opens the groove again.
Here's my video of how to hammer and dress a bar - in this case an old one:
It seems unfortunate that they’ve been made with such wide grooves. I’ve made one bar for an 024, using a 1.5mm Holzfforma bar (for Husqvarna) to take 1.6mm chain (standard for Stihl), by re-cutting the bar base pattern to fit. This has worked fine (but doesn't fix the steel quality problems).
What else could go wrong?
There are various potential problems I haven’t experienced so far: failure of the sprocket nose bearing; bending of the bar with normal use. We'll see.Conclusion
Holzfforma bars are not worth buying with their current poor quality. If you’re going to use them, you need to be prepared to do some significant bar doctoring before first use, and again soon after. The bar doctoring skills and equipment needed to make these bars useable are useful for any chainsaw bar at some stage of its life.For me, I don't regret trying these bars out, as they've enabled me to try a few things I wouldn't do with expensive bars. They've done a few dozen hours work for me, of significant value. The over-gauge bar grooves is an annoyance which can be managed with hammering. However, the chipping of the rails is a pretty terminal problem, which I think makes these bars not worth buying.
Thank you for your in depth report on these bars. You saved me alot of future aggravation. I thought the price was too good to be true, I'm glad I found your post.
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Just curious... Are the chains that are sold with the bars of the same quality? Is there a post on this?
ReplyDeleteHello, the chains are alright, but tend to have hard spots from badly adjusted grinding. I have several in frequent use. I do have a post on this at https://bruceteakle.blogspot.com/2018/11/huztl-chainsaw-chain-review.html
DeleteI've edited my post above to link to my other Huztl product posts.
I am glad I found your post just before I placed an order. Still waiting for the saw, but the bars got here today. I spent the evening dressing them and am not done. FInding the same things you saw but I also notice that when you get below the paint there is a LOT of pitting in the steel. I think I have already taken more than .020 off these rails trying to get them somewhat level. I could file all night I think. But my expectations were low to start, one bar I ordered just so I can use up 1 new chain, then it's a wall hanger. The others I bought to select the best length for the new saw. WHen I decide, I will buy a better one. Thanks again for a great review.
ReplyDeleteHow do I return my saw for repairs
ReplyDeleteI bought 2, 24 inch bar and chains from Holzfforma through Amazon. Seems like QC is addressed with very poor quality gauges and skill. I have the exact same issues. Poor drive link groove which is very oversized causing chain diving down or crooked forcing the bar to easily twist. Almost seems like it flexes or wobbles very easily almost as if it were rubber. Now for the chains, I'm over 60 and have a cottage fueled by wood only. I've cut wood for 45 plus years and have never heard, seen or experienced chain that literally devours wood. It cuts and cuts and keeps cutting. Oregon, Stihl and others work pretty good for a while, but the Holzfforma is bullet proof. Through dirty wood, hardwood anything. It actually cuts huge thick ribbons more than chips. I still can't believe how sharp it stays...I tried the same chain ripping in a Norwood mill and its ripped 4, 14in logs 10' and still sharp like new. I have to sharpen other chains after one log. The chains are totally remarkable and worth 4 times the money if not more.
ReplyDeleteI bought 2, 24 inch bar and chains from Holzfforma through Amazon. Seems like QC is addressed with very poor quality gauges and skill. I have the exact same issues. Poor drive link groove which is very oversized causing chain diving down or crooked forcing the bar to easily twist. Almost seems like it flexes or wobbles very easily almost as if it were rubber. Now for the chains, I'm over 60 and have a cottage fueled by wood only. I've cut wood for 45 plus years and have never heard, seen or experienced and chain that literally devours wood. It cuts and cuts and keeps cutting. Oregon, Stihl and others work pretty good for a while, but the Holzfforma is bullet proof. Through dirty wood, hardwood anything. It actually cuts huge thick ribbons more than chips. I still can't believe how sharp it stays...I tried the same chain ripping in a Norwood mill and its ripped 4, 14in logs 10' and still sharp like new. I have to sharpen other chains after one log. The chains are totally remarkable and wort 4 times the money if not more.
ReplyDeleteTY for that review-been debating buying a reel of their Holzfforma chain. For milling that would be WONDERFUL to go 3-4x longer between sharpenings!
Deleteis the chains an good
ReplyDeleteThe Holzfforma chains were excellent and I would definately buy them again. Not so for the bars. Just my experience and view...
ReplyDeletewill Holzfforma .325 .063 62 drive links
ReplyDeletefit my sthil 025 16ias chnc gain saw
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I think so. Stihl 025 takes a .325" pitch bar that's open at the back, like MS230, MS250, etc.. Stihl 024 and 026 take a .325" pitch, bigger format bar base with a closed back.
DeleteWhat about running .063 chain in an .058 bar once the paint is removed? Is there .005 of slop in the rails? Maybe use a worn .063 with some valve grinding compound in the .058 bar for a few minutes?
ReplyDeleteHello Dean, good thinking - I've done just that a few times: buying 1.5mm/.058" x .325" bars and running 1.6mm/.063" gauge chains. However this has been in bars that I've also cut short: https://bruceteakle.blogspot.com/2017/08/shortening-chainsaw-bar.html
ReplyDelete1.5mm gauge bars tend to be for Husqvarna saws and have Husqvarna bar mount patterns, so for Stihl saws they need some re-cutting anyway.
There's no need to grind the groove wider when you do this, the bars need hammering pretty soon anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49SSfLdJITs&lc=Ugy7Li2XYtiPemEtaLt4AaABAg.9BXN6JfkMU39F4O2JDyDw1&feature=em-comments
Thank you for putting this information together. Really appreciate the time and effort, as well as your "good enough" perspective and the reasons behind it. Thanks for sharing!
ReplyDelete.cool post and good brand. thank you so much for sharing with us.
ReplyDeleteElectric chainsaws are my favorite. Thanks for this cool post..
ReplyDeleteBruce Teakle'S Pages: Holzfforma Chainsaw Bar Review >>>>> Download Now
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